PTE Changes With the CGFNS and Immigration Show With the Legal Experts
My name is Mukul Bakhsi great to see people from all around the world. Here I am the chief global affairs officer at CGFNS International in Philadelphia I've been here for 10 years. And one other hat I wear in my role here at CGFNS is as the director of the Alliance for ethical international recruitment practices, which are it's our division that ensures that foreign health professionals are treated fairly when they come to the US. And AMN International has been a long standing kind of pioneer and supporter of efforts to ensure that people who are using recruiters have the best experience they can absolutely and we take that very, very seriously here at AMN International, I know that we have many, clinicians that are listening in today that are already part of our AMN International family, so that will be very, very familiar to you. So all right, let's get into the questions. I want to be respectful of Mukul time today, but Mukul, can you give a brief overview, many of our clinicians already know, but for those who may not, how CGFNS assists international nurses?
Absolutely so when nurses are coming from abroad to the United States, often you have to come through CGFNS for two distinct processes. One is for our visa screen certificate. So if you're seeking an occupational or employment based visa to come to the US, you need a visa screen that you can bring to the embassy for your consular interview. That's for the immigration side. Also, many State Boards of Nursing require what's called our CES or credential evaluation Service report for state licensure, and that report goes to the state and helps them determine whether you, as a nurse, educated in your home country, are comparable to that of a domestically educated nurse. So there's two processes in which you'll often interact with us perfect. Thank you so much Mukul.
So I know that that helps a lot of people who are who are listening in today. So let's talk about the topic of the day, we are going to talk about the changes that are upcoming with the PTE English competency exam. So what will the new score requirements be for PTE effective December 1 of this year? Great. So we're only making one minor change, right? So we're not changing all the other scores. The one score we're changing is that right now, you need to have an average of 55 across the PTE exam if you choose to take that exam with no more a minimum of 50 on every section, we're now saying that you have to have a 63 specifically for the speaking section, and this is just as a note only for the visa screen program. State Boards of Nursing set their own English language requirements that we would continue to adhere to based on what they have for that program. Perfect thank you. We've got some questions coming in here in in the chat. So Zoomer is asking, Does California Board of Nursing accepts CES to get an RN license endorsement.
Generally, yes. I mean, I would have to look specifically at the requirements. California, unlike a lot of other states, has very specific requirements, but in some cases they would Okay, perfect. Thank you so much and a lot of the questions that we get as well are very case specific to the individual. So what I would advise you to do is also reach out to your case specialist, reach out to your immigration coordinator, your license coordinator, for any specific questions that you have regarding your particular case, a lot of the information that we provide on these shows is general to help the overall audience. So if there is something that is specific to your case, we would be happy to help you on an individual basis. So Mukul, can you talk to us a little bit about why, why the scores were updated. Why the scores were increased in that one particular phase that we just talked about absolutely.
So about, you know, for 15 years of the visa screen program, there were only three exams that were accepted, the IELTS, TOEFL and TOEIC exams. And I know there was a lot of pressure over the last few years for there to be more choice for international healthcare workers when they're taking exams. And so that was what happened two years ago. Is HRSA, which is the Health Resources and Service Administration within the Department of Health and Human Services in the US, they're the ones responsible for the visa screen requirements, and they added all these additional scores, and it came pretty quickly that the scores are not concordant, meaning that some tests were easier than others, and so we've been requesting for a while that HRSA kind of takes a new look at all the scores.
This is not just one, but this was one that we found was a pretty big problem and that some nurses. Were not proficient in English when they got to their hospitals and healthcare facilities, and so Pearson and CGFNS we work together on this recommendation to HRSA, and then ultimately decided to unilaterally make this decision in the meanwhile. Just as another note, though, HRSA, since that, since we've been had this invitation, has put out a call and is looking to review all the scores and make some additional changes as well.
Okay, great, and that's the most important thing. You know, working with an organization like both of our organizations, the number one thing is, first of all, yes, we want to make sure that everyone is treat treated ethically and fairly, but also that when you come to the US, you're thriving, right? So that English confidence, competency exam is so important, and we hear as well routinely, is that international healthcare workers, they pass NCLEX. That's not the most challenging thing in in a lot of cases, it's that English competency, and that's why it is so important, particularly in the healthcare field. So you mentioned that you're working with HRSA on possibly updating the other English scores.
Do you have a time frame around when that may happen when you start conversations around that process for the other English competency issues. So the conversations have been ongoing for quite a while. HRSA just recently put a kind of a formal request for comments, and then they're going to get comments from all stakeholders like CGFNS and some of the English language providers, for example, on December 9. So I would expect sometime, probably mid 2025 or later in 2025 that there would be some additional changes.
Okay, perfect thank you. And I'm sure that Mukul will keep us all updated on anything that that is happening, that may, that may change something with the other English competency exams. So Mukul, if we have some clinicians who had taken PTE prior to December 1 and did not reach the benchmark of the new score, how does that affect them? Does their is their old score grandfathered in? Or will they have to take another English competency exam to qualify?
Yeah, great question. I know this is one that's on the kind of a big concern for a lot of healthcare workers. The way we're doing it is it's based on when you apply for your CGFNS visa screen. So specifically, when you have an order, which means you've had a paid order. So if you put in an order before December 1, you are subject to the current requirement that 50 for speaking, if you don't put in the order till after December 1, even if you took the PTE in 25 in 2024 or 2023 you would be subject to the new scoring requirements. So I would suggest that if people are concerned about that, even if they don't have all the other documents, if they get their order in by December 1, they're subject to the current standard. Okay, great, that's very helpful. And have a lot of questions around that, so hopefully that that helps you all, and you probably answered this question, but it's coming in.
So for those who are already in the visa screen process, how do the new scores affect them? If? If they do, yeah. So if you're already in the visa screen process, you've received your certificate, of course, then your certificates yours. We're not changing that. Even if you're in the process and haven't received your certificate yet, you'll be subject to the old requirements. We want to make sure there's ample notice, and that's why you why, up till the end of this month, any new orders that are received or any orders that already received will be subject to the old standard. This change is important, but we want to make sure it's as fair as possible in our rollout. Absolutely,
And we know that that PTE, as well as other English competency exams are not accepted in every state across the country, and I know this changes routinely and will probably continue to evolve and change. But do we do we know how? How many states actually accept PTE right now and how many don't? So again, this is going to change. As you know, it's very fluid. We understand that, that it's very fluid. But I think that what they the questions that are coming in is I also certainly more accepted across the United States than PTE or other English competent, competency exams. Would that be a valid statement? Mukul, yes, I think that's right. So IELTS is accepted pretty much everywhere throughout the country.
I'd say PTE is probably, I don't know the exact number, but roughly about half the states at this point, except PTE, that number will continue to increase. Exams like PTE and OET that have entered this market at the federal. Level Two years ago, are going state by state, trying to get more states to accept them. It's really important that you don't think about just your visa screen and taking the test for that, but you make sure that you have the English language you need for whatever states you're considering working in, absolutely.
And that's very important as you are going through the process, if you are already in in the process, or you're thinking about starting the process is really think about where you want to be, where you want to work. Maybe you've got friends and family in a certain location that that you want to work in. Always work with your recruiter, with your licensure specialist, on whatever English competency exam that you have taken or are planning to take that it is accepted in the state where you want to live and work. Because, you know, just like we said, the English process can be challenging. And so, you know, if you've, if you've taken a particular exam, let's say, PTE and you want to go to a state that does not accept PTE, then you will have to take another English competency exam.
Mukul has already mentioned IELTS is more widely accepted. So if you're thinking of placement opportunities and how you can increase your placement opportunities, then certainly think about taking an English competency exam that is more widely accepted across the United States because it opens up many more opportunities for you. Thank you. Thank you Agus COVID for tuning in. Thank you for always bringing us the updates on the immigration system. Of course, that is what this show is for so that you are the first to hear what's happening. So Annessa is asking, Mukul what is PTE? So thank you for asking that question. Because you know may be sitting here talking about it and saying like, well, everyone knows what, what it is, when you may not. So thank you for asking that question, and Essa and I will give that over to Nicole, yeah, great question. Sometimes we just jump into the meeting. We know what it is. We just think.
So thank you for holding us accountable to that absolutely. So let me just step back for a moment. So when you apply for that visa screen there, we're looking at kind of three things. We're looking at your like credentials, like your licenses and transcripts. We're looking for a test for nurses, a test of nursing knowledge, like the CGFNS qualifying exam or the NCLEX exam. And then we're looking for English language. And that English language requirement can be satisfied in a couple ways. In some cases, you might be from a country that's exempt. There are a few countries that you don't even need that requirement, but for most countries, you need to take a test of English language. And we mentioned IELTS, that's in TOEFL. Those are two tests that are quite well known and widely accepted. And then these additional entrants over the last couple of years, those include PTE which is the Pearson Test of English, the OET, which is the occupational English test, Michigan English test, Cambridge. So there are a few options provided by different vendors to meet the English language requirement. Perfect.
Thank you so much. So hope that answers your question, and I said, I'm sure many other people had that question on so thank you for being brave and asking that. So again, going back to you know, Mukul mentioned, there are many options for English competency, but please just make sure that you are working with the organization that you are working with. It be your recruiter, your licensure, your credentialing, that it that you are focused on taking that exam where you want to be placed, or considering an exam that just is more widely accepted, increasing your placement opportunities. So Anne has a question. I think Mukul had answered this one, but we will ask it again, as I'm sure that we've got people who are coming in a little bit later and not getting all the information. So Anne took her PTE in March of 24 but has not started her visa screen, sorry, in June of 2024 and but yet to do her visa screen. Will she be affected by this new update?
So, and my advice is, well, first check your score. You know, only a small percentage of people have between a 50 and a 50 and a 62 in speaking, meaning they're gonna be affected by this change. Most people who pass the exam are gonna meet the new requirement as well. So I wouldn't worry about it. If you're not in that range, where your speaking score is in the 50 to 62 range. So first, check your score. Secondly, if you are in that range, you will be affected unless you get in your visa screen application by November 30. So you don't have all your documents there, but you have to have a paid order. So if you're in that, in that middle ground where you would pass under the old standard, but won't pass under the new standard, I would suggest that you make sure you get your payment in by November 30, and then even if it takes a few months to get your documents or to get that visa screen. So get issued, you'll be subject to the old standard.
Great. Thank you so much, Mukul. Hope that helps and we have a lot of questions coming. I do just want to let everybody know that we do have team members on the back end as well answering all the questions that that you are putting in. So if we don't get to them live today, you will get your answer, as our team is going through those questions as well. Today, the Okay, so I don't have a name, but it says, Hi, Deirdre, can you ask Mukul if the test scores are only acceptable in one sitting, or can we get the accepted scores in two sittings? Yeah, so this is a good question. So you know, we our formal policy at CGFNS is we don't allow what's called a clubbing or pairing of scores, so it's supposed to be in a single administration, but there are exceptions. So as a policy matter, it has to be the same test, but we do make exceptions, so you can request those, and then there'll be a case by case waiver of that requirement.
But again, that's at our discretion as a general matter. It wants to be on one test, and we do know, now accept, I know some tests have retest provisions where you can take a certain section. Again, you know, particularly for me, I believe IELTS, where we do accept those changes, we realize that there's kind of a lot of differences between the tests, and we're trying to harmonize them. So we're actually going to have all the English language providers come to CGFNS offices here in Philadelphia and kind of talk about all these issues, and we want to have more formalized and standardized policies across in the next year.
Perfect. Thank you so much, Nicole, we have got lots of questions coming in. I'll take a I'll take a couple more, and then I will give Mukul back his day. So mags is asking if the visa screen is near expiry, do we have to take the English test again? Yeah, that's a great question. So, um, you know, for those of you don't know, a visa screen certificate lasts about five last five years. So it's five years from when it's issued. So if you need to get another one due to your visa status or something else, then you would have to re take English, because most English language scores are only valid for two years. So the way you would do that is, there are you'd either have to take another test, or in some cases, if you're already working in the United States, you may be exempt based on your employment history in the US, but if you're if you're not here and you need to take a new visa screen, you would be subject to having to take another test again.
And I just want to one more question, a question I see and there are people asking about state requirements, I want to be clear that this change that CGFNS is doing effective December 1 is only for our visa screen program for immigration, as I mentioned earlier, we also do the CES reports for state licensure. In those cases, we will take whatever tests and whatever passing scores that the State Board of Nursing determines are appropriate. We don't have scores that are standard for those Okay, thank you, Mukul, thank you so much so. And again, our team is on the back end answering any questions that that you have that we don't get to today. So Joseph is asking, I did IELTS, and I have a visa screen already. I'm going to North Carolina. Do I kindly clarify whether I need whether I need it again. And I think you're asking whether you need to take IELTS again. Joseph,
yeah, so, Joseph, I mean, I think in general, probably not right. I don't know the specifics of your case and when you took the test and what North Carolina requires, but if you have an active test like IELTS, that's within the last couple of years, and you have your visa screen, generally, you would not need to take a test again. Okay, thank you so much. So Mukul, before we let you go, any words of advice for our international healthcare workers who are listening in today? Yeah, absolutely. So I love talking to international healthcare workers, and it's just exciting to talk to people who are like on these amazing journeys, to go to New Destinations, new countries, and build new careers for themselves and their families. I would recommend, if you choose to work with a recruiter, you really work with the reputable ones. I mean, this is an industry where there's a lot of differences, and organizations like AMN really provide the support throughout this process. As you can tell, even today, there's a lot of nuance, there's a lot of questions, and having qualified strong support to help navigate you through that process can be incredibly valuable, not just in terms of your initial transition, but also in getting a foundation in your employment that's really valuable for your long term success.
Thank you so much, Mukul, we really appreciate your time, and I know that you've helped a lot of people here today by answering all those questions, and we truly love partnering with. CGFNS here at AMN International, and thank you for all you do to ensure that our international healthcare workers, once they arrive to the US thrive, are treated equitably and fairly. As you all know, AMN International is a long time subscriber to the alliance, and we take it very, very seriously and really, really thank you for your time today. Mukul, have a wonderful weekend, and if we don't talk before that, have happy holidays and Well, until next time. So we'd love to be back on the show. Great thank you so much Dee. Thank you everyone for joining today. Thank you.